v Rags away

[KunDB]

Ederson, Walker, Akanji, Ake, Cancelo, Rodrigo, De Bruyne (C), Bernardo, Mahrez, Foden, Haaland

SUBS | Ortega Moreno, Phillips, Gundogan, Grealish, Laporte, Alvarez, Gomez, Palmer, Lewis

That is probably our strongest starting 11 without stones and Dias, though surprised Laporte is on the bench.

C'mon City

[gavin]

Yeh, thought Laporte would be playing.

Play like your life depends on it. No prisoners.

[Stephen Paul]

Big game
Hopefully we are back to our best today

[Stephen Paul]

Hopefully we won't miss Stones today

[Stephen Paul]

Need to up the tempo

[KunDB]

We have controlled most of the game. Utd parked the bus hitting on the break.

Need Foden to hug the left line keeping wide creating space. Fred man making KdB.

[gavin]

How many times is that Malacia going to come through the back of Mahrez without being booked? How did he not give a foul on Mahrez by Casemiro at the end?

City can play so much better but we're the only side playing attacking football. The rags playing on the break at home again.

[bbk]

United made the best chances. They are playing the team in front of them very well.

We need to get Haaland off and see how we go with a false 9 in there to tip the midfield back in our favour, especially with KdB being marked out of it.

[Stephen Paul]

Referee showing his colours

Every time Mahrez gets the ball he is fouled

[gavin]

City shouldn't be kicking the ball out of play for Rashford being injured. Let the ref stop it if it is a head injury but otherwise carry on.

[KunDB]

Two clear penalties waved frantically away by Stuart Atwell. Cheating.

Go Jack Go.

[bbk]

Holy God. That cannot be a legal goal..?

[bbk]

That one is fine. Playing with 10 men, asked for this.

[gavin]

That first goal of theirs was offside. That is an absolutely farcical decision. That ball was played to Rashford who was offside. He shielded the ball. How on earth is he not interfering?

[Hesperus]

I haven't been this pissed off with City for asking time.

[KunDB]

Clearly offside. Rashford protecting the ball from Akanji getting it

Officials were awful and totally biased.

3 penalties not given.

[gavin]

Honestly, I despair of the offside rule if that isn't offside. There can be no question that Rashford is interfering with play. Foul after foul after foul unpunished by the ref.

[Hesperus]

We were shite.

Big loss that; major implications for the season. Top 4 at risk I would say. Something badly wrong with the team.

Livid.

[Stephen Paul]

Some woeful decisions today against City but we let them back in it too easily

[Stephen Paul]

Missed big Stones at the back

[KunDB]

We were shite.

Big loss that; major implications for the season. Top 4 at risk I would say. Something badly wrong with the team.

Livid.

We were far and away the better team. Utd parked the bus and hit on the break and fouled with protection from the officials.

If the penalties had been given entirely different result.

[KunDB]

I said the same thing about the Salah FA Cup goal against Wolves the other week. The rule is nonsense and open to referees picking and choosing whether or not to allow it. The rule needs changed. There is no way there Wolves defenders could just have left the ball to go to Salah in the hope he would be later rolled offside.

There is no conceivable interpretation of 'Not interfering with play' that could be applied to Rashford today to allow the goal, after it was ruled offside. Yet VAR would not award the City penalties because it was not a clear and obvious error by the referee each time.

Laughable and despicable and ruining  football.

Law 11

1. Offside position
It is not an offence to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or
last two opponents

2. Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
or
gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

A 'save' is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:
a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge

*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

3. No offence

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
a goal kick
a throw-in
a corner kick
4. Offences and sanctions
If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player's own half of the field of play.

A defending player who leaves the field of play without the referee's permission shall be considered to be on the goal line or touchline for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play or until the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside its penalty area. If the player left the field of play deliberately, the player must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play.

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play, or the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside its penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee's permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

If an attacking player remains stationary between the goalposts and inside the goal as the ball enters the goal, a goal must be awarded unless the player commits an offside offence or Law 12 offence in which case play is restarted with an indirect or direct free kick.

[jingoe]

The so called experts are relying on the fact that Rashford didn't touch the ball. That is irrelevant to him interfering with play. He obviously distracted the City defence. An outrageous decision by the referee. I am so pissed off

[lee]

Their  goal which was blatantly offside changed the dynamic.
Im not arsed about it now i have digested the cheating and slowly drinking myself to an early bedtime.
We played well and dominated them as usual.That hitting us on the break lark is fuckin woeful especially when they are home.

Shit cunts

[bbk]

Pep has to take responsibility for the position we are in.

[bbk]

The rule is a joke, if that's a legit goal. Sporting integrity must be protected from people like Peter Walton.

[bbk]

I said the same thing about the Salah FA Cup goal against Wolves the other week. The rule is nonsense and open to referees picking and choosing whether or not to allow it. The rule needs changed. There is no way there Wolves defenders could just have left the ball to go to Salah in the hope he would be later rolled offside.

There is no conceivable interpretation of 'Not interfering with play' that could be applied to Rashford today to allow the goal, after it was ruled offside. Yet VAR would not award the City penalties because it was not a clear and obvious error by the referee each time.

Laughable and despicable and ruining  football.

Law 11

1. Offside position
It is not an offence to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or
last two opponents

2. Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
or
gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

A 'save' is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:
a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge

*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

3. No offence

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
a goal kick
a throw-in
a corner kick
4. Offences and sanctions
If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player's own half of the field of play.

A defending player who leaves the field of play without the referee's permission shall be considered to be on the goal line or touchline for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play or until the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside its penalty area. If the player left the field of play deliberately, the player must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play.

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play, or the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside its penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee's permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

If an attacking player remains stationary between the goalposts and inside the goal as the ball enters the goal, a goal must be awarded unless the player commits an offside offence or Law 12 offence in which case play is restarted with an indirect or direct free kick.

Do you think Gareth was the VAR?

(For clarity,  this is tongue in cheek)

I feel ill.

[KunDB]

We can take a loss, it's football after all, you win you lose players, managers and officials make mistakes.

However, there is something wrong with a rule that leaves the decision entirely to officials on the day to make it up.

I don't think the referee was cheating but unless Rashford stops and stays away from the ball he is active, and active is interfering with the play because defenders have to defend against him. Would the referee have rolled the same if it was a City goal at OT, I have serious doubts 

But a player shielding the ball from out defenders and threatening to shoot as Rashford did is interfering with play and our ability to defend.

It's not a god look for football or officials.

[KunDB]

How's Rashford not interfering with Akanji getting the ball?

[bbk]

Wild. As mentioned, I feel ill. I almost turned it off. It stops being a sporting contest when things like that happen.

[Victoria]

Rashford was clearly offside, distracting our keeper and  defenders. Rashford did not touch the ball but he was playing the ball. The goal stood when those  crybabies complained. My question is: if Fernandez had not scored would the offside call still stand? I think it would!

[gavin]

Really, it doesn't need explanation of rules. If the rules suggest that that is not offside then they are wrong. It is a parody of fair play. You've got an offside player guarding the ball towards an onside player to knock it in. If that is football now then you can stuff it.

[KunDB]

United made the best chances. They are playing the team in front of them very well.

We need to get Haaland off and see how we go with a false 9 in there to tip the midfield back in our favour, especially with KdB being marked out of it.

Blaming Haaland is easy, but it is the failure of City players to pass the ball quickly to him when he makes his runs through the opposition defence. Maybe the real problem is City is not set up under Pep to play rapid cutting passes, instead just pass around 15 times so everyone can get in position to prevent being hit on the break. So my question is, is Haaland the right fit for City, i think yes but it needs time to adjust.

[KunDB]

Pep has to take responsibility for the position we are in.

Yes second in the PL before the half way has been reached is sacking stuff indeed.

[bbk]

That's quite a dramatic jump. I'd say sacking stuff is a fair distance off.

[KunDB]

It is a big jump but for illustrative purpose. We are second in the PL hardly a disaster. We have no right to be always first, Peps responsibility is to manage the team and get the best results he can, which he does.

[Hesperus]

We're not taking advantage of Haalands abilities. He's making great and dangerous runs into the box and we're just not even looking to play him through.

We seem obsessed with safe slow possession, move it to wings type play. Rather than taking a few risks with attempting some cutting through balls.

We're becoming boring to watch and a bit predictable this season in an increasing number of games.

Also our defence is shite. The winner from them. I couldn't believe what I was watching. Rashford afforded all the time and space he needed and our defenders just watched him. Then I watched utd defend like tigers (touch tight) for the last 15 mins whilst we tried everything and I thought, why can't our players defend like that?

[KunDB]

The real issue is we clearly did not learn from The Real Madrid collapse. Repeated it at OT yesterday, will they ever learn no matter what happens FOCUS and step up the tempo don't concede control.

[gavin]

We're not as cohesive as we were but I don't think that we're that far away either. We were playing well in the second half and in control of the game before the offside goal. It is a lot easier to play well defensively when that is what you set out to do with numbers. That is what United set out to do, at home in the Derby. Which says a lot really. They are effective on the break but of course it helps when you can involve offside players and the away side plays real attacking football with numbers.

[Stephen Paul]

too many games lately where the pace is too slow first half.     

[Kilkenny Blue]

Aside from the goal not 1 shot on target!  We kept possession but did nowt with it.  The 1st goal was not a goal, by any stretch of the imagination.

Worrying times as we're looking a bit toothless.  Onwards and upwards

[bbk]

We're not taking advantage of Haalands abilities. He's making great and dangerous runs into the box and we're just not even looking to play him through.

We seem obsessed with safe slow possession, move it to wings type play. Rather than taking a few risks with attempting some cutting through balls.

We're becoming boring to watch and a bit predictable this season in an increasing number of games.

Also our defence is shite. The winner from them. I couldn't believe what I was watching. Rashford afforded all the time and space he needed and our defenders just watched him. Then I watched utd defend like tigers (touch tight) for the last 15 mins whilst we tried everything and I thought, why can't our players defend like that?

Exactly that. The Haaland thing isn't working but, after watching the MOTD analysis and had it highlighted how many brilliant runs he made for players with more than enough ability to find him (something I do not have the analytical eye to spot myself which might leave me prone to erroneous statements re football / players), I wonder where the problem lies? Why are they not playing the balls to him? They weren't risky balls. They were either balls into space which Haaland could have held up or through balls which would have put him in on goal to some degree. There was one where KdB could have played it in but splayed it wide to Mahrez. Maybe they are just hyper-programmed and it's going to take a while to get used to having a striker. We might just need to take this Arsenal doing a Leicester on the chin.

[Victoria]

The reality is City can't win every game, every cup,and the premiership every year. Arsenal are only 8 points clear, a lot can happen between  now and the end of the season. After-all, Liverpool nearly chased a 13 point lead City had last season.
In my view, City have not played to their full potential since the Brentford home game and after the world cup.
What's going on with City, I don't know, but it is not a Haaland problem. City were successful before he came. I think it is an issue of too much rotation due to too many games.

[bbk]

The reality is City can't win every game, every cup,and the premiership every year. Arsenal are only 8 points clear, a lot can happen between  now and the end of the season. After-all, Liverpool nearly chased a 13 point lead City had last season.
In my view, City have not played to their full potential since the Brentford home game and after the world cup.
What's going on with City, I don't know, but it is not a Haaland problem. City were successful before he came. I think it is an issue of too much rotation due to too many games.

This is sort of my point.

[jingoe]

Even Gary Neville says he thinks that if he takes off his red - tinted specs the goal was harsh against City.

[KunDB]

Neville was honest about it, he even said how can the officials conclude Rashford was not interfering with the opponent.

I've watched it again and again and it is clear that Akanji had to run around Rashford at the critical moment, instead of going directly to the ball to try and make an interception/tackle. How is that not interfering with an opponent. So even under the current law the officials are just wrong.

[CTID]

The sad outcome of this episode is silence from the Professional Referees Association, a hardening therefore of their Ghetto mentality and reinforcement of the stupid interpretation of interference as ONLY touching the ball. So the Salah goal & the Fernandes goals (note the two clubs who are benefactors) will happen again and no player can understand the offside rule and the risk playing a player offside in a game has rocketed.

An absolute shambles and referees terrified of accountability and transparency, which would benefit them and more importantly the game of football.

[gavin]

They talk about respect for referees. They don't deserve any when they give don't give us the respect we deserve by explaining themselves. What a shower of spineless, weak shithouses they are.

[KunDB]

Sadly I'm still simmering over what happened at OT.

Ok by now they should have admitted they made a mistake and there was indeed interference by Rashford and the goal should have been disallowed. Instead, silence and bunker mentality. They have to earn respect by being both competent and honest about mistakes.

[jingoe]

Sky normally have Dermot Gallagher on Monday morning talking through contentious decisions

Just wondering if anyone saw it and what his view was?

[gavin]

He would have given offside but he refused to condemn the ref

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/manchester-city/12788073/ref-watch-was-marcus-rashford-interfering-with-play-why-didnt-it-go-to-var

[CTID]

Sky normally have Dermot Gallagher on Monday morning talking through contentious decisions

Just wondering if anyone saw it and what his view was?

Saw it on Utube and while he said he would have played safe and disallowed the goal I was a bit perplexed by his reasoning. Even by the current rules Rashford was interfering and this should therefore result in the goal being disallowed.

I understand the referees association sent Howard Webb (I think) to Wolves because of the Salah goal incident, no one has turned up at City and clearly after both events the lessons are not being learnt.

Time to go back to if a player is offside, any attacking player, when the goal is scored it is offside and no more messing about.

[KunDB]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/wolves-write-to-referees-chief-after-offside-call-against-liverpool/ar-AA16aL4O

The referee visit was about the other appalling VAR decision against Wolves and in favour of Liverpool.

"Toti Gomes thought he had put Wolves 3-2 up late in the FA Cup third-round tie, only to be flagged offside. The decision was upheld by VAR despite no clear evidence that a Wolves player had been in an illegal position during the move."

"But VAR had no camera angle available to provide any evidence to overturn the decision and the teams will reply at Molineux on January 17."

[gavin]

I saw an interview with Pep where he said that he has no interest in talking to the refs because it achieves nothing. He sends his minions to arranged meetings regards reffing.

But the refs should be coming out and either condemning or attempting to explain it. No chance of actually explaining it as being onside but they should at least have a go if they believe that to be the case.

[Stephen Paul]

He would have given offside but he refused to condemn the ref

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/manchester-city/12788073/ref-watch-was-marcus-rashford-interfering-with-play-why-didnt-it-go-to-var

Might as well of not bothered giving his opinion