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well done Jessica

Started by Stephen Paul, November 13, 2014, 19:38:49

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Ludo


gavin

It is her right to take her name off something if she doesn't agree with their approach. Having said that I don't think Ched should never be able to work again so I don't think it is right to hound anybody who might employ him.

To be honest I found it a bit weird that they have a stand named after an athlete anyway. Doesn't say much for their former players does it!

goat

well the ched evans stand might burn down


anyway, did they only have a drunk girl that was tweeting about cashing ins word for all this?

Ludo

There's no reason for Evans not to work again but there's no reason for him to work in such a high profile job like this.

Can you imagine the BBC re-employing Rolf Harris?

goat

so who decides which job is suitable for him?

The Blue Blooded Maniac

Quote from: goat on November 13, 2014, 22:52:07
anyway, did they only have a drunk girl that was tweeting about cashing ins word for all this?

His mate and some bird were pissed and went back to a hotel room and was having a shag. Ched stuck his ears in and asked if he could have a go on her and she said ye. When she woke up though she changed her mind.

goat


Stephen Paul


goat

not once mate, has a hearing coming up soon

Stephen Paul

I thought he said in an interview he had made a terrible mistake

Ludo

#11
Quote from: goat on November 13, 2014, 23:46:34
so who decides which job is suitable for him?

The public, who are ultimately those that pay his wages.

I know if he had a more mundane job like a plumber or electrician he won't have the publicity but you wouldn't let a convicted rapist come in and rewire your house.

andy1966

Two of the clubs sponsors have also threatened to pull out if they re employ him

As for what job ?
he could always apply to B and Q or ASDA , Then lets see how long his devoted girlfriend hangs around

bluepill

I'd be amazed if anyone employed him in a high profile club, it sends a poor message. A bit of contrition could help his cause I can't believe you can get let out early without showing some empathy of regret for your crimes. He should be able to work in his chosen profession though as he has done his time, whether he should walk back in to 50k a week takes the piss a bit.

clevblue

trouble is, he's well known and EVERYONE knows he's a rapist. If you walked past one on the street you wouldn't know. So he's going to go on paying for his "mistake" as long as he's a pro footballer. That's a decision for him to make, carry on or disappear.

alexsam

Evans has denied raping the woman from day one and he currently has an appeal waiting to be heard.

If i was his counsel I would be advicing him to keep quiet and his head down until his appeal is heard. If he were to win then he could look at playing again, if he loses he should be considering an apology which by then would look too little too late.

In his mind it seems he is adament that he has done nothing wrong, he admitted having sex with the woman but that she agreed. Part of the case rested, if not all of it on the fact she was so drunk that she could not have known what she was agreeing to. My question to that is why did the other bloke involved not also be found guilty. Perhaps she had less to drink when she agreed to go back to the hotel?

It is all very seedy, the men texting to each other that they had a girl in a room ready, they surely must have done this before, which for me is out of order.

Why Evans girlfriend is sticking by him on the above account alone I do not know, other than money.


goat

Quote from: Ludo on November 14, 2014, 07:19:54
Quote from: goat on November 13, 2014, 23:46:34
so who decides which job is suitable for him?

The public, who are ultimately those that pay his wages.

I know if he had a more mundane job like a plumber or electrician he won't have the publicity but you wouldn't let a convicted rapist come in and rewire your house.

the public watch itv, read the daily mail and listen to u2, the public are fucking idiots

a former chairman wrote a piece in one of the papers a while back about fans taking too much credit for this paying the wages thing, he disagreed that they do. ill try and dig it out if im arsed

finally, im pretty sure if evans the spark came to fix your kettle he would be able to resist you

goat

zacco know how an iron works

The Blue Blooded Maniac


goat

the thing stevie uses to make calls

The Blue Blooded Maniac


Neil Mcnab

Does anyone really know what happened?
There is obviously nothing in law preventing him from working as footballer, let him get on with it. He has done his time. If he still posed a risk, he would still be inside. Its that or mob rule.
The job he works in pays very well. Nobody would be worried if he was in a low paid job. So a lot of this must be down to jealousy.
I have no idea whether any local traders have criminal records.

bluepill

No but a corporation or large company with a public profile would probably check and choose not to employ someone in that kind of situation.

goat

Quote from: Neil Mcnab on November 14, 2014, 18:16:18
Does anyone really know what happened?


just ched, the girl and the other ex city lad i think

some light reading

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

citoeast

He had a trial and he was found guilty at a fair hearing.

IMO having read through the court transcript the victims statement was surprisingly honest and therefore believable, in stark contrast to Ched Evans story which stretched credibility e.g. what texts sent between him and co-defendant meant.

His colleague benefited from the system of justice in that I presume he got the benefit of doubt. I have no problem with that and I see no conflict with Ched Evans guilty verdict.

I see no remorse from Ched Evans, so imo he should not have been released before serving his full sentence. No remorse no rehabilitation.

goat

assume you saw the part where after testing it was doubted that she was so drunk she would have memory loss

citoeast

Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 19:37:51
assume you saw the part where after testing it was doubted that she was so drunk she would have memory loss

As I said he had a fair hearing. We can select and exchange quotes:

The complainant had no recollection of anything which took place after 3am. That extended to the fact that she and McDonald entered the hotel at 4.15am. The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel.

It was an essential part of his expert (for the defence) evidence that there were significant doubts about the claim made by the complainant that she had suffered a memory loss. In effect, it was suggested that her assertion was false.

but as I said he had his trial and the jury decided, that is the law.



goat


ok so he was found guilty and did the time given to him, no reason he cant go back to work without the collection of bellends chipping in right?

Ludo

It's impossible to predict what level of alcohol would render someone so drunk they would lose their memory, everyone has a different tolerance to things like alcohol and drugs

It's not as if this girls able to make any money from this, I think she may have even had to have a change of identity, so it's hardly likely she'd go to the lengths she has to make it up.

He hasn't done the the time given to him. He's done half of it and the other half is spent on licence. And if not wishing to see a convicted rapist soak up the adulation from a ground full of muppets is wrong then Im happy to be wrong.

goat

#29
does seem she attempted to make money from it

google " ched win big " to see

citoeast

Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:31:28

ok so he was found guilty and did the time given to him, no reason he cant go back to work without the collection of bellends chipping in right?

He is entitled to work, but imo not in a football capacity, as it sends the wrong message and he would be in a role model for children growing up.

A personal opinion just.

My most serious concern is his sheer lack of remorse. To me that means no rehabilitation has occurred. We all make mistakes and are entitled to learn from them and move on, but this is clearly not the case with Ched.

goat

wondered how long before role model came up

and if he does believe he is innocent why would he show remorse




citoeast

Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:42:02
does seem she attempted to make money from it


With due respect to you I would advise caution and suggest you might want to reflect on deleting that. The victim has a right to anonymity we should all respect.

alexsam

Quote from: citoeast on November 14, 2014, 20:52:50
Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:31:28

ok so he was found guilty and did the time given to him, no reason he cant go back to work without the collection of bellends chipping in right?

He is entitled to work, but imo not in a football capacity, as it sends the wrong message and he would be in a role model for children growing up.

A personal opinion just.

My most serious concern is his sheer lack of remorse. To me that means no rehabilitation has occurred. We all make mistakes and are entitled to learn from them and move on, but this is clearly not the case with Ched.

He will not show remorse for the 'rape' as he things he is innocent and is appealing the conviction, showing remorse is admitting he raped the woman.

That puts him in a bad position with many people but is understandable as he is appealing

Rehabilitation is not a word i would use for what we do in this country when it comes to convicted people. The majority of us do not care as long as they nowhere near us.

citoeast

Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:53:36
wondered how long before role model came up

and if he does believe he is innocent why would he show remorse

Because he does not decide the courts and justice system and 12 impartial jurors decide, having listened to both cases.

goat

Quote from: citoeast on November 14, 2014, 21:00:26
Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:42:02
does seem she attempted to make money from it


With due respect to you I would advise caution and suggest you might want to reflect on deleting that. The victim has a right to anonymity we should all respect.

i thought with sky splashing it everywhere it was common knowledge, edited to be safe

goat

Quote from: citoeast on November 14, 2014, 21:03:30
Quote from: goat on November 14, 2014, 20:53:36
wondered how long before role model came up

and if he does believe he is innocent why would he show remorse

Because he does not decide the courts and justice system and 12 impartial jurors decide, having listened to both cases.

would kind of make the whole appeal system pointless

dont forget how many have been wrongly convicted and had them quashed

citoeast

He has appealed once and failed I believe, but he has a right to further appeal. He may even win that. In the interim he is guilty and should not have continued to insist that the woman he was convicted of attacking had consented to sex and expressing regret for what he described as an “act of infidelity” against his girlfriend. Guilty until proven otherwise. Until then he should maintain silence and defend himself through the courts and justice system.

goat

to be fair he has been quiet compared to people like nick clegg, the one that runs a bit and richard and judys judy. no clue what any of them have to do with anything

Ludo

When push comes to shove he's just a cnut anyway.

goat

read some story earlier about him acting a twot with an air pistol

gavin

It is not like the justice system has a very reliable track record. I don't think I'd have found him guilty based on what I've read. He and his mate say she consented, she can't actually remember. It doesn't seem very solid to say it is beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't consent. I can't see someone being found guilty of any other crime on the say so of someone who admitted to being too pissed to remember what happened.

Neil Mcnab

Ched Evans is no choir boy its clear. I still cant understand why he should not go go back to work, now he has done his time. The role model stuff is nonsense.

Remember Lee Hughes. He seemed not to be a candidate for a Nobel peace prize, but went back to football after his sentence. Why is it alright for him and not Evans? Or for that matter all the rest of the footballers who have spent time inside.



Lekos

I sense some heavy editing on this thread!   :D

andy1966

"I know if he had a more mundane job like a plumber or electrician he won't have the publicity but you wouldn't let a convicted rapist come in and rewire your house"
Nor would you let him in to rod your wifes plughole ;D

goat

Quote from: Lekos on November 15, 2014, 14:51:08
I sense some heavy editing on this thread!   :D

dont posts say when they have been edited anymore?

reddishblue


Lekos

Quote from: goat on November 15, 2014, 20:36:17
Quote from: Lekos on November 15, 2014, 14:51:08
I sense some heavy editing on this thread!   :D
dont posts say when they have been edited anymore?

Not when the mods delete them

The Blue Blooded Maniac


citoeast


The Blue Blooded Maniac

Not your period I hope!!!

goat

Quote from: Lekos on November 15, 2014, 21:56:03
Quote from: goat on November 15, 2014, 20:36:17
Quote from: Lekos on November 15, 2014, 14:51:08
I sense some heavy editing on this thread!   :D
dont posts say when they have been edited anymore?

Not when the mods delete them

ahh must be gav then

gavin

Nothing relevant to the thread was removed. Can we stick to discussing threads please.

goat

we were on about the thread

gavin

What was removed wasn't.


lee

its not a funny subject but you lot should all be locked up   ;D

The Blue Blooded Maniac


Stephen Paul


citoeast

Quote from: stephenmcfc on November 18, 2014, 07:42:57
Did I miss something ?

No worry Stephen not on your own, I think it's safe to say everyone on this thread is missing something.

bry the guy


citoeast

Latest is that Sheffield Utd have now withdrawn their offer of use of their training facilities from Ched Evans.


gavin

Sheff U not coming out of this very well. Criticised by many for not having the morals to turn him down out of principle. Now they don't have the backbone to follow through with their stance.

citoeast

Conducted a survey of their staff allegedly before offering him use of training facilities.

Makes you wonder what the culture at the club is that they could be so out of touch with wider society.


andy1966

They have now retracted their offer to have him train at the club

Looks like his career  is fooked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30054475

goat

panic over, they can still have a stand named after someone with nothing to do with anything

Ludo

The decision to allow Evans to train was never one that Sheffield United were ever going to come out of looking good.

It was understandable that criticism from the general public and fans, both grass roots and high profile, would be unabated and has probably brought about the right outcome.

goat

so if the appeal goes his way and he does clear his name i wonder how many will say sorry


he can always go to scotland or somewhere without a proper league

Ludo

Berlusconi can sign him to help him out at the bunga-bunga parties.

citoeast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30151774

Sheff Utd angry they have had to do a u-turn.

What a bunch of idiots, how much do they want to damage their reputation; well the cinders that are left of it.

For your info Sheffield United co-chairman Jim Phipps try reading this sentence and not cringe.

"Sheffield United co-chairman Jim Phipps says he is "angry" they have been forced to deny convicted rapist Ched Evans the chance to train at the club."

No one forced you to let him train or stop him training you made a decision. our indignation and outrage on this contrasts shockingly with your silence on the crime.

I will refrain from saying more but football needs a long hard look at itself, its morals and ethics.


citoeast

Quote from: goat on November 21, 2014, 13:08:20
so if the appeal goes his way and he does clear his name i wonder how many will say sorry


he can always go to scotland or somewhere without a proper league
[/quote

Give up the denial fair trial, fair verdict, guilty by 10 of his piers.

If he is ever acquitted (or the rest of the prison population) then is the time to consider his treatment, but only then.

gavin

So no-one has ever been wrongly convicted then?

goat

and was it a fair trial?
still seems like the word of a girl who in her own words was too drunk to remember what happened

goat

Quote from: Ludo on November 21, 2014, 19:57:33
Berlusconi can sign him to help him out at the bunga-bunga parties.

and when robinho comes back they can catch up and share rapey tips


clevblue

#74
Quote from: gavin on November 21, 2014, 21:47:07
So no-one has ever been wrongly convicted then?

Yes of course and he's now going to carry on paying for it if he wants to be a professional player, because everyone knows now what he was convicted of, he'll be tainted with that forever. Or he could just disappear into an ordinary job and most people will forget him.

In fact that's what it seems he will be doing from now on if no club can take the flack.

It's the 'demon drink' that's responsible, really it is poison and it gets to some more than others, some brains react very badly to alcohol. If I get too much I just fall asleep. It turns some into monsters - and they don't need all that much  :o

citoeast

#75
Quote from: gavin on November 21, 2014, 21:47:07
So no-one has ever been wrongly convicted then?

Of course it happens, but if every time we convict someone we just keep on calling and treating them as innocent until they give up appealing or run out of appeals we may as well unlock the prison gates and let them all out now.

He had a trial, he had an appeal, he is guilty. That was and is his verdict. Even if he and some others are not willing to accept that.

He is trying to appeal further and he has that right, until then he is guilty in the eyes of the law and society and is still serving his sentence. Tough luck if he cannot get his high profile, highly paid job back. That is his own fault with no one else to blame. Entirely due to his own appalling despicable behaviour; irrespective of the verdict.

I hear few on here spouting the rights of the victim or talking about her horrendous ordeal and the subsequently devastating impact on her life. Strange that, but then she's not a footballer just a victim of rape.

goat

#76
not 100% his fault, the ones chipping in are not helping and umm seem to be drawing more attention/publicity to it . seriously why are people like nick clegg chipping in, its not like he is qualified to do anything of use anyway and its possible its only to remind people he is still around, what with his career just as chedded up

im willing to bet these wankers are not whinging because he wants to play football but are jealous he will earn more than a fair load of them

goat

Quote from: citoeast on November 21, 2014, 23:18:11
Quote from: gavin on November 21, 2014, 21:47:07
So no-one has ever been wrongly convicted then?

I hear few on here spouting the rights of the victim or talking about her horrendous ordeal and the subsequently devastating impact on her life. Strange that, but then she's not a footballer just a victim of rape.

her horrendous ordeal?

all we know is she got shitfaced and fucked ched

gavin

I don't see everyone as innocent after being convicted but I do have a healthy cynicism when it comes to justice. In this case I just don't see how anyone can be convicted of a crime when the victim can't remember what happened and there is no physical harm or evidence of force or of protestation or of anything. What actual evidence is there she didn't consent? Even she doesn't claim to actually know what happened. It rather stinks of a presumption of guilt which runs contrary to justice as it is supposed to be as far as I'm aware. Rape is a heinous crime, dunno why it seems to have a lower burden of proof than any other crime.

goat

my theory

ched told her he was a footballer
she saw money
they shagged
she googled ched and or sheffield united
10000000s turned into 1000s
decided she didnt want to shag ched after all

bluepill

It's attitudes like this why rape conivctions are so low. Many blokes don't even believe it's a crime, and always belittling the victim, asuming they were asking for it, and think hey she probably enjoyed it anyway...  Bit of character assassination by the defence and it's easy to introduce a seed of doubt.

gavin

I believe it's a very serious crime. Hence there should be proof of guilt. Can you please tell me the proof in this case that convinces you of guilt?

bluepill

I wasn't there at the trial, justread the same stuff as other commentards. Perhaps you lads were there and heard the evidence and have a solid reason for not believing the outcome of the trial. Or maybe it's the same old misogynistic attitudes that prevent the truth being found in most rape cases

goat

Quote from: bluepill on November 22, 2014, 00:32:32
It's attitudes like this why rape conivctions are so low. Many blokes don't even believe it's a crime, and always belittling the victim, asuming they were asking for it, and think hey she probably enjoyed it anyway...  Bit of character assassination by the defence and it's easy to introduce a seed of doubt.

not sure anyone here said it wasnt serious and if she said she was too drunk to remember then thats not too good is it

and has a story about a girl pulling a footballer in a bar ever ended well?

bluepill

Too drunk to give consent then yeah?

goat

but according to some expert  they had at the trial she wasnt

could she be telling fibs?

bluepill

Of course its possible but right now he's convicted of a serious sexual crime has show zero remorse and got out early. No way should a football club be letting him represent them until his appeal is heard. If he's found innocent then, fair enough no one should be able to stop him training or playing if he's served his time. right now however, he is by definition guilty.

goat

footballer is just a job, ok a very high paying job but still a job. if the club think he can help them win games/make money they hire him if not they wont but to not do it because loose women or some shit has a cob on is bollocks


wasnt this much fuss over lee hughes or that keeper

gavin

So there's no evidence but we're misogynists for not thinking he's clearly guilty anyway.

goat

to be fair you probably are one gav  :D

pretty sure i said a while ago i dont care about her or even him, im more concerned with people going on about it in my paper and annoying me

bluepill

He has been found guilty so he is guilty - you are still free to believe what you want of course. I'm saying that posters are airing misogynistic views when belittling the suffering of being treated like a piece of meat or asking for it.

goat

they are both probably chav wankers, there ive evened it out for you

but, if she went back to a hotel with him and his mate after a night on the piss what was she expecting, if she didnt want to shag them why go there eh, safe to say it wasnt to show off the mini bar or little soaps

bluepill

Wish the story would Fuck off and let us get back to whinging how shit city have been

gavin

I hate some women like I hate some men. Mainly Tory politicians or rags.

I don't belittle her feelings or the feelings of rape victims at all but I do think they're irrelevant when it comes to the burden of proof. Either there is decent proof or there isn't. Feelings shouldn't come into it.

If he's guilty when found guilty then maybe he should be free when freed but he doesn't seem to be and nor do Sheffield United seem to be free to employ him.

citoeast

#94
My final say on this.

The evidence was heard and some of it has been touched upon on here.

The expert defence witness claiming she was not drunk to give consent was heard, and presumably [rightly in my opinion] dismissed on the weight of other contradictory evidence. In my opinion she was clearly too drunk to give consent and was therefore highly vulnerable and any decent member of society would have protected her not taken advantage of her state of inebriation to have sex.

The jury heard the girl freely and honestly admit she was too drunk to remember exactly what happened.

The jury heard the surrounding evidence including Ched booking the room earlier in the day, the texts shared between the men, the cctv footage, the hotels night porters statement, etc.

The jury weighted it all up and considered it against 'reasonable doubt'.

They acquitted the other man on reasonable doubt.

They considered the weight of evidence against Ched and found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

So guilty he is, she is the victim and he is the rapist no matter how many on here want to re-run the trial without proper and fair hearing.

Ched is a predator and danger to society, a rapist, so society need protected from him and his like.

He can appeal further, but this is not a case of unfair justice, an unfair trial or process like the Guildford Four case. It was a through and fair trial as far as I can see and hear.

He can of course reform but there is no sign of that, just remorse at getting caught and being exposed for what he actually is a rapist.

Not accepting the fair trial and fair consideration of the evidence and conclusion of guilt beyond reasonable doubt, well Ched needs to rethink his actions, response and behaviour and reform himself, as does some others on here need to rethink their attitudes and response {as we all, me included, need to do at various times as we all carry bias and mental baggage from our upbringing}.


Ludo

Should Evans be able to gain employment again? Yes of course he should. Should he be allowed to do so in the high profile world of football? Probably not.

Whether or not we like the term 'role model' or even if footballers should be role models is irrelevant. They are. They for the most part occupy the same celebrity orbit as pop stars, film stars and tv personalities.

Kids don't go to bed at night dreaming of being the local greengrocer, they don't have posters of the milkman on their walls but Evans plays his trade in front of thousands of young people every week and employers should, rightly, take that into consideration.

If he wins an appeal then all that can change but until then he's a convicted rapist and should be treated as such, a pariah.

gavin

I think the world is far too complicated to see it in such black and white terms. Every circumstance should be judged on its merits as far as possible. I will make my own mind up not rely solely on an all too fallible justice system.

lee

didnt lee hughes playfor oldham after his crime..maybe ched should try them  :D

Victoria

Quotef he wins an appeal then all that can change but until then he's a convicted rapist and should be treated as such, a pariah.

If he wins his appeal, society will still see him as a pariah; mud sticks rightly or wrongly!

bry the guy

Freedom for the Welsh one.

Swiss

How long do you hound someone out of the ability to earn a living after they have served their sentence?

Ok, Ched didn't serve it all, as don't most. But that's a fault in the legal system!

goat

sheffield united have offered to let bill cosby train with them

gavin