City are back!

[gavin]

Typical City that is. Win 5-0 one week, lose 4-0 the next. That last goal today was classic City. Even though I was immensely pissed off I had to laugh.

[KunDB]

You know for all the money spent I think our current defence is barely better than some of the worse from our past. Today was just embarrassing and humiliating watching guys on 100/220k a week crumbling to kids.

[KunDB]

I say the team needs aright old sort out.

Get rid of CB and Caballero

Keep Stones, he will come good in time and clear out the rest of our defence.

Midfield keep KDB, LS, IG, Fernandinho and Silva (Maybe as he is no goal scorer and team is full of those firing blanks) bring in an enforcer. Get shot of Yaya (love him but to old and too slow now), Navas, Delph, Fernando, Sterling (He cannot score in to an open net and needs 3 touches before shooting).

Up front keep Aguero, Iheanacho and Jesusbut definitely get shot of Nolito.

Big clear out needed urgently, as this squad are nowhere near good enough.

There should be no question of Pep going and that should be made abundantly clear.

[Ludo]

Did we ever really effectively replace De Jong?

[Lekos]

Nope

[Ludo]

I was just thinking earlier that Mancini was able to win the league with a defence including Kolarov, Richards and Lescott but they had de Jong in front of them.

That's what we're missing.

[Victoria]

I agree: Mancini is missing.

[bluebrendan]

Did we ever really effectively replace De Jong?

I'd say it's Barry we haven't replaced from the Mancini era, NDJ only featured in just over half the league games in the 11/12 title season. Barry was an understated type of player who made the midfield tick over smoothly and allowed the flair players to flourish.

[Lekos]

Even taking into account our defence is shit and midfield protection isn't really there, Bravo's stats are bloody awful.

in four of City's last seven Premier League games, Bravo has conceded from the opposition's first effort on target.

How has he done over the season so far?

Bravo has saved 57.41% of shots on target in the Premier League (18 of 31)

That puts him 14th overall in save percentage, among keepers to have played 15 games or more

Burnley's Tom Heaton has the highest save percentage with 76.32% (87 of 114)

Bravo has conceded 14 goals from the last 22 shots on target faced.

(From bbc)

[KunDB]

Even taking into account our defence is shit and midfield protection isn't really there, Bravo's stats are bloody awful.

in four of City's last seven Premier League games, Bravo has conceded from the opposition's first effort on target.

How has he done over the season so far?

Bravo has saved 57.41% of shots on target in the Premier League (18 of 31)

That puts him 14th overall in save percentage, among keepers to have played 15 games or more

Burnley's Tom Heaton has the highest save percentage with 76.32% (87 of 114)

Bravo has conceded 14 goals from the last 22 shots on target faced.

(From bbc)

I never bought into the we must keep Joe Hart campaign, but I have to say Claudio has done himself no favours at all and is a fraction of the goalkeeper Joe was.

Pep wants a goalkeeper who can play out with his feet, I buy into that. But first and foremeost he must be a goalkeeper and Bravo simply is not. When he needs to be big and imposing he is in the foetal position trying to save, small and insignificant. When he needs to charge out menacingly at rushing attckers he is stuck like a frightened rabbit on his goal line flapping around.

I imagine that he brings no confidence and self belief to defence and in all likelihood our defenders are terrified at the prospect of attackers getting near him making them a nervous bunch of wrecks and mistake prone. 

He is not a goalkeeper, so if it's ability with passing the ball out to start attacks and maintain possession that matters we might as well play Yaya in nets as he will definitely do a better job with his feet and would be a lot more menacing to attackers.

[goat]

stats i put up somewhere had bravo with a better save percentage than hart

hart is shite

bring back dibble

[Ludo]

Hart is shite with his feet but a decent shot stopper.

Bravo is shite.

Just use Willy.

[goat]

shite with crosses and his decision  making coming out is dodgy as fuck an all. how often did he charge out and miss the ball? he killed nastastic as a city player

[Ludo]

No argument there, but Bravo's all over the shop.

Caballero's not brilliant either but it might be an easier task to teach him how to pass a ball than to teach Bravo how to catch one.

[goat]

this back four will kill any keeper

they could make buffon and  neuer look like margetson

[zacc]

wonder if we could clone a Hart/Bravo combo?

[Stephen Paul]

We are woeful at corners. Might as well not bother

[Gareth]

wonder if we could clone a Hart/Bravo combo?

It's City - we'd get the worst of both...

[Neil Mcnab]

We do need a clearout, that will come in the summer. But in the meantime, if we dont want to revert to typical typical city, we need at least one defender and a midfielder, this window. Pep needs to step up as well and improve what he has now.

[Rowley Birkin QC]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/jan/16/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-everton-problems

[zacc]

It's City - we'd get the worst of both...

shoulda thought of that

[Lekos]

stats i put up somewhere had bravo with a better save percentage than hart

hart is shite

bring back dibble

Rubbish.

I've seen stats that show the opposite (yesterday at some point).  If I find them I'll post them.  Not having that anyway.  Hart had his faults, flapping at crosses, kicking the ball straight out of play from goal kicks, etc, but shot stopping was not one of them.  I think Hart would have saved all of the Everton goals.  The ball just passes Bravo like he's not even there. 

By no means saying Hart is the best and we should have kept him, etc, etc, but the reality is we have not replaced him with a good enough keeper.

[Lekos]

[goat]

Rubbish.

I've seen stats that show the opposite (yesterday at some point).  If I find them I'll post them.  Not having that anyway.  Hart had his faults, flapping at crosses, kicking the ball straight out of play from goal kicks, etc, but shot stopping was not one of them.  I think Hart would have saved all of the Everton goals.  The ball just passes Bravo like he's not even there. 

By no means saying Hart is the best and we should have kept him, etc, etc, but the reality is we have not replaced him with a good enough keeper.

not at all rubbish  my arse loving pal, i compared him to neuer, hart, lloris and  might have been someone else an all

was before he signed for city

wouldnt mind so much if bravo was in his 20s and willing to be coached unlike hart. but hes not, hes in his fucking 30s

nice to see 3 ex city and a few made up blokes in your list

[goat]

couldnt find the tweets so ill do it again

saves per goal

bravo 3.40
neuer 2.73
hart 1.91
lloris  2.13

so there we have it, more saves per goal last season

this season
hart 1.96
bravo
1.18

and who the fuck is geronimo rulli?

[KunDB]

There is a team, tactics and player skills failure, not just a goalkeeper failure. That said, Bravo has shown next to nought to convince he is competent in the basics of goalkeeping.

[Neil Mcnab]

Er, Given has played about two games in the last 5 years and wasnt David Marshall a central defender at Oldham. You can make stats to make most players superb or shit, depending what stats you drag up. Bravo had been turd, but he wasnt stinking like shit at Barca was he. The whole defence will have zero confidence and will have stats to confirm. Go on a winning run and the stats will prove Otamendi is better than Baresi and Bravo is the same as Yashin.

[Lekos]

You also need to compare like with like.  Comparing Bravo's stats at Barca are irrelevant - teams just sat back against them.  He wasn't even their #1. 

With more or less the same squad at this point last season Hart's shots on target to saves ratio was 9% better than Bravo's are now.  You won't get a more direct comparison.  It's on the BBC somewhere, can't be arsed to find it.   

They're both shit for different reasons.

[goat]

lovely stuff

anyway, rulli, apparently a goalkeeper and alive. already sounds better than hart and bravo

[Leewonpen]

Hart is shite with his feet but a decent shot stopper...

Watched a bit of Torino-Milan last night. Hart had no problem receiving the ball and playing out from the back that I could see.
I have always been of the belief that there was some sort of personality clash between JH & Pep. Maybe Pep thought he was too big a character in the dressing room......?
Maybe the "not able to play the Pep way" was a convenient excuse.

[KunDB]

Age profile sums it all up:

Bravo 33
Sagna 33
Stones 22
Otamendi 28
Clichy 31
Zabaleta 32
Toure 33
Silva 31
Aguero 28
Sterling 22
De Bruyne 25

Average age: 29

[Ludo]

Watched a bit of Torino-Milan last night. Hart had no problem receiving the ball and playing out from the back that I could see.
I have always been of the belief that there was some sort of personality clash between JH & Pep. Maybe Pep thought he was too big a character in the dressing room......?
Maybe the "not able to play the Pep way" was a convenient excuse.

Yes, weren't there rumours that Hart was instrumental in the unrest that led to Mancini being replaced.

[goat]

so he is shit and a cnut, great

wasnt fussed on mancini either tho

[Gareth]

The Guardian helpfully points out that in the Premier League since the 2009-10 season, Bravo is only the 4th worst keeper, measured by goals conceded as a percent of shots on target faced.
So there you go, he's not even in the top 3.
And great with his feet, an' all.

[Ludo]

Top 3

Stevie Wonder
Helen Keller
A Hedgehog

[nimrod]

The Guardian helpfully points out that in the Premier League since the 2009-10 season, Bravo is only the 4th worst keeper, measured by goals conceded as a percent of shots on target faced.
So there you go, he's not even in the top 3.
And great with his feet, an' all.

may as well have a cardboard cutout,  in fact it might be better